Twice in my life, so far, I have been diagnosed with mental illness. The first time I was four years old and diagnosed with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD for short), a well-earned diagnosis considering my savage early childhood. Then, less than twenty-five years later, a little more than a year after the death of my father, I was diagnosed with chronic depression. Being diagnosed with chronic depression can be depressing, not least because the Mental Health Institute is far more interested in treating depression (and other mental illnesses) with drugs than in seeking a cure [1].
So, what does the Bible say about mental illnesses and how one knows when one is cured, or “better?” More than many people may realize! Perhaps the most complete account of mental illness within scripture, especially dealing with its cure, is the story of Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4. Let us look at Daniel 4:33-37 to see both the mental illness and its cure, and then draw out its lessons for us.
Daniel 4:33-37 reads: “That very hour the word was fulfilled concerning Nebuchadnezzar; he was driven from men and ate grass like oxen; his body was wet with the dew of heaven till his hair had grown like eagles’ feathers and his nails like birds’ claws. And at the end of the time I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my understanding returned to me; and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever: For His dominion is an everlasting dominion, and His kingdom is from generation to generation. All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand or say to Him, “What have You done?” At the same time, my reason returned to me, and for the glory of my kingdom, my honor and splendor returned to me. My counselors and nobles restored to me, I was restored to my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added to me. Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and extol and honor the King of heaven, all of those whose works are truth, and His ways justice. And those who walk in pride He is able to put down.”
So, let us examine the lessons we see from the mental illness of Nebuchadnezzar and examine how they can be useful in examining how we know we are better from a mental illness. Let us examine these one at a time so that we can gain a fuller understanding of what the Bible means by being better and cured from such problems, in the knowledge that the Bible believes in cures and not mere treatments.
First, let us notice Nebuchadnezzar’s illness. For seven years (Daniel 4:32) Nebuchadnezzar ate grass like a cow, out of his mind. This is a vastly more serious mental illness than most people suffer. For most of us, depression and anxiety may be common, but we are still aware that we are human beings, even if we think that everything is dark and gloomy. So, let us note first that Nebuchadnezzar’s case of mental illness was far more severe than that suffered by most of us (myself included) who have to deal with mental illnesses.
Second, let us note two events that happen simultaneously for Nebuchadnezzar. He looked his eyes toward heaven and his understanding was returned to him. One can recognize one is better from a mental illness when one has perspective. One’s sense of mental balance is restored—for me I notice my sense of humor returning, my appetite returning, toxins leaving my body. Additionally, one knows one is better also by one’s relationship with the world—depression often involves self-absorption, while getting better from depression means an awareness of and appreciation of what is outside in its proper perspective, recognizing God as sovereign and our own nothingness in comparison with Him. When one’s worldview is restored, one knows that one is better, as Nebuchadnezzar did
As soon as Nebuchadnezzar came to himself, the first thing he did was praise God in gratitude. This is an important lesson for all of us. We cannot take mental health for granted, and especially when we have recovered our mental health that once was lost, we need to show God an attitude of gratitude for His mercy and graciousness in giving us back our sound mind once again. We also, like Nebuchadnezzar, need to resolve to recognize those problems (whether they were our fault or not—in Nebuchadnezzar’s case it was pride, in the case of many people it may be health problems, abuse, the death of loved ones, or some other stress of life) that got us into mental illness and do what we can to avoid a relapse by changing our way of thinking.
We also notice that Nebuchadnezzar, when he got better, he was restored to his previous condition. His being cured from mental illness was not merely a matter of not thinking he was an ox anymore, or simply cutting his hair and fingernails, but being restored to his kingdom, to his honor and dignity, to his nobles and counselors (his support network of friends). Getting better is not merely an absence of the mental illness, but a restoration to one’s talents and abilities, and a restoration of one’s position and worth in society. Let us hope and pray for that ourselves when we struggle with mental illness.
So, let us recapitulate the lessons we learn from Nebuchadnezzar’s struggle with mental illness. For one, we learn that no mental illness is too serious for God to cure. Additionally, we learn that being cured leads to a restoration of our perspective with the world and with God as well as gratitude toward Him and a loss of self-absorption. We also see that recovery means the need to show God gratitude for the blessing and gift of sound mental health and reflection on how to preserve that state in the future. Finally, restoration of mental health is merely part of a full restoration of relationships and talents and abilities that God can grant, if He so chooses. Let us all hope, if we struggle with mental illness as Nebuchadnezzar did, that we may be fully restored to health and happiness, and fully appreciative to God for His blessings to us now and in the future.
[1] http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/mental-health-medications/complete-index.shtml
Edge Induced Cohesion 
“how one knows when one is cured, or “better?
I felt very sad when reading about your situation and especially your early childhood (PTSD). That must have been very difficult for you to re-count. My heart goes out to you as a broher and I great erspect you in your efforts to help people to realize mental health.
I have always heard that depression cannot be cured. How can you say that you are indeed cured, or even “better”? I found it reported that since 2000 the FDA mandated that depression cannot be cured, and now doctors are sayiong that depression goes into “remission”. How can one tell the difference (if there is) between being cured and remission?
Indeed, what the FDA and Mental Health Institute say is rather irrelevant. Remission seems to be a concept invented to keep people on their toes and always concerned about the next time, something that may increase stress and trouble for others. I think a clear distinction may be drawn between the permanently recovering alcoholic and a cured depressive. The only way an alcoholic could ever be cured is if the weakness to alcohol were eliminated–that is, they were restored to their full health. Since we find that is not generally the case, it is legitimate to say that one is always a recovering alcoholic unless it can be determined that one’s brain has been restored to the pre-alcoholic state of health. Nonetheless, if someone who has struggled with depression (or, like the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar, behaving like an ox) has been restored to full physical and mental health, such a person would be cured. So long as their mind showed the “terrain” of chronic depression and their behavior was similarly affected, they would only be recovering. And therein lies the difference. Remission is merely a fancy way to refer to something that is cured but that may come back in the future, and that is equally true of cancer and depression. Simply because they are eliminated one time does not mean they may not come back at another time or through another pathway. This is why self-examination is useful to see what problems and factors led to the problems in the first place–was it genetic weakness, environmental stress, a little bit of both?
That is very informative but you said that for you,,,,
Are you saying that you have been cured from depression? I don’t really get that you can say such a thing as the FDA and doctors everywhere are saying that it cannot be.
I have to say yes, though I will be the first to admit that it is a condition which may return, and that doesn’t bother me. The FDA and NIMH are mainly looking to profit off of selling psychoactive drugs and encouraging people into dependency on them. That’s not something I want any part of. It’s my job to make sure that I am more resilient and less susceptible to it in the future.
Wow, that’s amazing that after all of what you described that you were affected by, you believe that you have recovered. I pray for you that it never returns. Did you eat grass too?
I can’t say I have ever eaten grass, at least not that I can remember. When I was a kid I did eat paper, though–I preferred college rule paper to recycled paper :B.
I almost wanted to quickly apologise for my remark but I see that you do have a sense of humor. This is amazing, I must know more about your recovery. I just checked the link to NIMH that you supply and was reaaly taken by the vast amount of medications. I know that it says something in scripture about “sourceries” and I know that the Christian communities say that it relates to “illegal” drugs, however I cannot help but to think that it has something to do with pharacuticals as in the days of old when there were alchemists and like witch doctors conjuring up special things for people to digest. Are you saying that by turning to God alone will cure depression, and what are your thoughts about the understanding of “sourceries” in scripture?
I do believe that God can heal completely, though He chooses to do so (or not) according to His will. Indeed there are a couple of possibilities for what sorceries means in the Bible in Revelation concerning the sins of the end times. One possibility is that it refers to a belief in sacramental magic and the belief that certain words have magical powers. Another possibility (and both could be true) is that this word, which shares a Greek root to pharmacy and pharmaceuticals, refers to the drug use (including the psychoactive drugs supported by the FDA for depression and other mental illnesses) that have run rampant in our society. No one who sees a generation of children drugged into zombiefication through Ritalin and other drugs will doubt that our generation is addicted to sorceries. May we repent of it and change our ways.
I borrowed this from another page.
“Jesus said we can do the same works He did. He even said we can do greater works than He did.”
John 14:12-14
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Was He referring only to His diciples?
Yes, if by disciples you mean His believers in general, and not necessarily the 12 alone. For that reason I make it a point of mine to encourage other people rather than heap additional burdens on those who are already struggling (see Galatians 6:1-5).
RE: “certain words have magical powers.”
Proverbs 4:20-22. And God’s Word will never pass away or lose its power. This scripture refers to God’s word as “it” and so I have trouble believing that Jesus is the “it” this passage refers to. Jesus is God’s “son” and He brought, “it” (God’s word(s)) to heal people and to show them that they can use the same “commanding voice” to heal the self and each other by it (God’s word(s)). Which as I see it being that gospel means “good news” as opposed to always listening for, expecting, and repeating “bad news’. Use of certain language styles and expression supplies a person with a renewed hope and I cannot help but to feel that it is this renewed hope that actually heals. Hope may in fact have a way of correcting neurotransmitter production, storage and regulation in a person do you think?
The concern isn’t the power of God, but the power of language apart from belief. There are some people who believe that the Hebrew name for God Y-H-W-H (which most people nowadays say as Yahweh and which was commonly, but probably mistakenly earlier said as Jehovah) has some magical powers. Jewish exorcists used the supposed knowledge of the “true” name of God to exorcize demons, sometimes with “entertaining” results (see Acts 19:13-17). And that is what I mean. Sacramental magic is the belief that mere words have the power to bind God to do what the speaker wills, whereas a genuine believer believes that God has the power to work through them according to His spirit what He wills and wishes. That is the difference between genuine belief and heresy.
okay I can agree witht that. So what does this say about cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) as it uses language in discussion to assist in the recovery of people with depression?
Is CBT a type of “Sacramental magic”? From my limited knowledge of the facts of treatment it is ruled against practitioners to include a person’s belief into therapy?
I would argue that the patient’s belief would be a very important element in their success of any therapy. Someone has to believe it is possible to be cured for a cure to happen by any means. A lack of hope prevents recovery. It is only once someone believes that life can and will get better that one can go about seeking how, and in light of their discoveries and change in thought process overcome the trap of negative obsessive rumination, or “negative self-talk” that tends to reinforce the depressive state.
I agree with you there too. Just like I said that “it is this renewed hope that actually heals”. I can see that you are a serious Christian and that you believe that you have recovered from what you described as “mental illness” as it is defined by NIMH, however, what I cannot understand is why has it (your recovery) taken such a long time to realize? Was there a time when your own sense of “hope” was dashed, and since that time by the tense in your blog, you must have recently heard or read something that stirred in you a “renewed hope”?
That has certainly been the case. Really, it was a combination of difficulties–starting with the death of my father and my own melancholy ruminations on my early childhood, to which very soon were added more melancholy ruminations on solitude and loneliness, and then for the last couple of years melancholy ruminations on joblessness, massive indebtedness, and so on. So yes, there was a loss of joy and hope on quite a few fronts that took quite a while to overcome. I would say the recovery has been gradual, but a recognition that it was the thought patterns that were causing and continuing the depression, even without an elimination of all of the things that I was originally ruminating about, did greatly help matters.
Wow! So you realized that it was “thought patterns” that made the difference? Isn’t that what the mental health communities are trying to help people do (change thought patterns) by using CBT?
This is somewhat confusing to me. How does one go from on day thinking a certain way and then the next (“recognition” as in your case it sounds like an “aha!” moment or an “epiphany”) there is a noticable difference in thought patterns? Its just too much right now to see this.
Yeah, I would definitely say it was an epiphany, but it was more than just the thought patterns but recognizing the whole pattern of where depression comes from, not only the thought patterns but also the sensitivity and the quest for meaning. Too often CBT is done without recognizing the larger “value” of the analytical and rumination that leads to depression when it becomes to obsessive and too negative, and that is not ultimately helpful, since it seems like “blaming the victim.” Instead, it was useful to see the whole pattern of the thought process and how the depression was the result of a good thing gone haywire rather than something entirely blameworthy and negative.
Although epiphanies are only a rare occurrence, following the process of significant labor, there is a common myth that epiphanies of sudden comprehension have also made possible leaps in technology and the sciences.[1][2][4][5] Though famous individuals like Archimedes and Isaac Newton might have had epiphanies, they were almost certainly the result of a long and intensive period of study those individuals have undertaken, not a sudden, out-of-the-blue, flash of inspiration on an issue they have not thought about previously.[4][5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphany_%28feeling%29
I agree. One of the reasons that so many benefits to society have come from melancholy people like Abraham Lincoln as well as many (if not most) of the world’s great writers and artists and composers and musicians (think of all the melancholy power pop songwriters or singer/songwriters who struggled with depression) is that rumination, even sometimes negative rumination, is the process by which the ground of genius is tilled and prepared for great insights. We have to work a great deal to “keep things in mind” or “ponder things in our heart” as the Bible says in order to have moments of epiphany.
The word epiphany originally referred to insight through the divine.[6] Today, this concept is used much more often and without such connotations, but a popular implication remains that the epiphany is supernatural, as the discovery comes suddenly from the outside
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphany_%28feeling%29#History
I would say that epiphany has religious connotations largely because it is a sudden intuitive leap of understanding. It’s sort of like studying and pondering a problem in many facts until with a flash all of the connections are made and you understand the whole picture. Something like that is remarkable and striking, even if it is rare because few people have the patience to wrestle with matters that long.
Let me understand this. You have seen that “blaming the victim” is the main problem facing people with depression? Aren’t we taught to “stop” playing the victim by psychologists, and hasn’t this type of “changed thinking” been encouraged for years? Also itn’t is common knowledge that “blaming others'” is not a healthy practice to begin with?
Indeed, we ought to stop “playing the victim” and recognizing personal responsibility for our thoughts and actions. At the same time, too much of CBT seems focused on blaming the depressed person for negativity, which is hardly a useful tactic. Again, far better is showing the broader picture of how the very good quality of reflection and rumination can become a problem when it is taken to excess without balance. Seeing the bigger picture provides hope by making the mental resources bigger, and showing how rumination is (in general) a good thing prevents someone from feeling attacked by those who are supposed to be helping. These things should be obvious, but they aren’t really all that obvious and for $150 a session, people deserve better than they get from the mental health community.
RE: “much of CBT seems focused on blaming the depressed person for negativity”…
How do you know this, have you had CBT?
I have; I speak from personal experience. My counselor was primarily a cognitive-behavioral psychologist who thought that immoral sexual activity was necessary to cure loneliness and who had a taste for rather negative CBT analysis. Perhaps that experience leaves me a little biased, but such it is.
I just do not want to read into that and so I will continue with another question I have for you that woulod be interesting to hear abou and that is :
RE: “toxins leaving my body”
Can you explain what this is and what it means about depression?
This is something I might not have believed unless I saw it for myself, but as someone who pays attention to bodily functions, I noticed as the depression was ending that my body was flushing out toxins at a high rate. This led naturally to the conclusion that perhaps the two were correlated, and that there might be a relationship between depression and the body holding on to toxins, which could easily relate to the physical manifestations of depression, such as insomnia, exhaustion, and the like.
Wow! again. That makes absolute sense to me. It would seem apprpropriate that the body heals this way. There have been things mentioned ion the past where it was said that the body needs nothing bt what God has supplied us with to heal emotionally and physically.
You appear to be onto something here Nathan and I would love to hear more about this. So when depression leaves the mind it becomes evident in signs in the body?
I think that at times miracles are necessary for healing, but since God is the creator, what He provides either directly or through believers would be what He has supplied even if it is not “natural” in these sense of philosophical materialism. As for the last comment, that’s exactly what I would say. As depression leaves the mind it is manifest in the body as well. It would appear as if the two are very closely connected, and mental changes can have physiological consequences. It certainly is something I have pondered on a fair amount.
Remarkable! Why don’t we hear more about this kind of thing in the mainstream media, and what about NIMH, do you think they know about this sort of thing. Also you mentioned the word (miracale). You are not saying what happened to you was a miracle because miracles are not accepted by the majority of people, especially in science and psychology and I would even go so far as to say that even some Christians have a hard time believing in miracles as we know Christians to pray for miracles staedily. Why you?
I’m not sure why we hear so little of such things myself. But since they have decided from their lofty ivory towers that no cure is possible, they might not be interested in what a cure looks like. I am not necessarily saying that what happened to me was a miracle, but that if certain types of healing required miracles I do not believe that would be unacceptable. As a general rule I am a believer in miracles, and have heard quite a few reasonable stories of them, even if I believe God generally works in an indirect way so as not to remove the responsibility of free will from people.
Hmmm?
Well from what I have just heard today I would say that it would be great indeed if the public were made aware of this. How long did it take you to think about this(realize) and what have you been studying psuedo pshycology? Sorry I had to.
Honestly, I am not a profound student of psychology, except being an educated layperson with a voracious appetite for books and learning in general. It would be good for the public to be made aware of such a thing, so long as it could be explained as part of a whole theory and not merely as a quirky and odd incident and fact. It is a lot easier for people to understand facts when there is a theoretical background to explain them.
Since your recovery, have you formulated something that can be put out for the general public to read. It would be a valuable resource in light of how many people are depressed in the world. You should write about this more I think.
I plan on writing more about this, indeed. So far my writing has been somewhat nonsystematic. It is my general habit to write short notes seeking to understand a larger phenomenon from a lot of different angles and then, as time and resources permit, writing longer works about them. By and large my large works tend to come from small parts.
Thats great to hear and I will keep ckecking in to see what you are writing about more. Back to you and your recovery. Do you feel (in your heart) that depression is gone forever for you or do you think that it will return as we know that we can never be sure of anything.
It may very well return; who can say that it is gone forever? We all live lives that are full of stress and trials. It is my hope that this experience has taught me how to handle it, what to do about it, so that if depression ever comes again it will be more like an annoying hotel guest and not a long-term resident of the mind.
how do you know that your body was in fact detoxing?
I suppose a full confirmation would have required some chemical tests. I inferred it from the extremely dark and foul-smelling urine that persisted for some time despite great efforts at hyrdation, having some passing familiarity with the condition of dehydration.
So rueld out dehydration. What about detoxing, is it not that people do generally detox this way? But I need to know how and why/
As someone who doesn’t have a long or profound history in drugs, I can’t speak as to how people generally detox. I would think that passing through urine would be one of the most obvious ways for the body to detox, especially if the chemicals have been in the body a long time and cannot be sweated out.
Hmmm? I just don’t get how you can relate (associate) depression and detox. Thats a hard one to grab.
As someone with a long family history of depression, alcoholism, chronic fatigue syndrome, and the like, it’s not very hard for me (in comparison with many ivory tower types) to see a connection between emotional and mental exhaustion and physical toxification that manifests itself in tired muscles and joints, breakouts of skin diseases like shingles, and even more exotic diseases like Morgellons. It is possible that traumatic events overwhelm the ability of the body to cope with life, leading to physiological results, and that the depression accompanied with not being able to understand one’s life experiences itself hinders the body from cleansing itself of toxins, leading to physical suffering as a result of mental and emotional anguish. After all, even Heman the psalmist in Psalm 88 noted the connection between his depression and genuine physical ailments, an area that is rich for study and confirmation by scientists, should they so choose.
I found this online about depression and detoxing but it seems to be saying the opposite of what you are reporting that at first you felt your depression leaving and the detoxing came afterwards.
http://www.cleansing-for-depression.com/detox-depression.html
I tend to be fairly sensitive to moods, and my depression was pretty severe, so it did not take a full recovery for me to be aware that the depression was leaving. I’m intrigued by the fact that you have done some research on the matter. In my case I did not intentionally detox my body, but the detox happened rather naturally.
As it appears it is that science already knows about the connection of depression and detoxing but someone has gotten it backwards. Who is it that has gotten it backwards, you, or science?
Science, typically, tends to work by trying to cure the symptoms at the surface and then proceed to root causes, if at all. On the contrary, my approach is trying to understand the larger picture and tackle the issues at the base of the problems so that the surface problems wither on the vine. It’s largely a difference in focus.
I thought if the cure for depression was as easy as a person simply detoxifying the body, why aren’t more people doing it (detoxing) and I found out that when we instigate detoxification there are some not to good side effects., Sorta like medication I guess.
If you merely detox the body without dealing with the underlying mental state, there would be consequences and side effects, absolutely. The goal is to cure from the inside out, dealing not just with the symptoms (as detoxification alone would do, and as medication does), but also wrestle with the root causes to improve the health of the person overall.
Amazing blog Nathan, you are a very well informed individual and I can tell that you care about people. There must be some other way to bring this to the attention of the mainstream media. This is just too much to let slide away while millions of people needlessly suffer and some are dying this very moment in agony as we speak. This is what hurts me deeply and as of late is causing me to become frustrated with the systems. As I pointed out that I am not an educated man but this is not about level of education or degrees, it is about life and death of innocence caused by ignorance and fear on the part of those who are at the top levels.
As informed as I am, I’m not all that proficient at marketing. Clearly, someone with a good skill at marketing and promotion would be useful in getting such information out to the general public. There is so much information and misinformation around, and so much for people to keep busy with in their lives for it to be easy for others to recognize what is of value.
If I had a degree in pshychology or neurobiology, this research and theory would be on the front pages of every newspaper in the world and I know that you as well as many other people whom I have discussed this with also believe this to be true but as it is we are of the disposable masses as the saying goes. By now my name is probably on the blacklists of all the local universities in my province and then some because I have tries on many ocasions to make them aware of this work but to no avail. I feel it is safe to assume that they merely think that I am a person with a mental illness. I do not believe that myself and or my work is a threat to any field or practice but this I will never know..
I’m not sure about that, but it’s possible. You might be on their “crank” list, that is true. On the other hand, once that which is true has come to the surface, it is only a matter of time before it becomes more widely known. Time, though is the issue.
As people (especially children) battle every day with emotional difficulties, and mainly out of merley not knowing about such truths as what this lay research and theory has uncovered.
I often wonder what the people at the top of the mental health communities and the universities think about this as they pass by the newspaper stands and jump into their new cars to go home to a warm home and a sfae environment. Do they merely put it out of their minds or are they consumed with guilt. One good indicator as to which is true is that the field of psychiatry and pshychology are rated among the highest in suicides. [1]
[1] http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1588/what-occupation-has-the-highest-suicide-rate
I’m pretty sure that people in the mental health industry feel pretty “guilty” and deeply personally involved in the mental problems of society. There’s no question that people have a hard time treating mental problems. I think that children are in the worst spot of all–since they are so sensitive to the world around them and so unable to understand the wholeness and context of their experiences. And how can someone learn unless they are taught?
If you don’t mind, and if any of your readers are interested in seeing if they can help out with this problem, I would like to add the following linki to my blog. If you feel that it is spam by your standards then go ahead and delte it. http://autonomousbeings.wordpress.com/2011/12/24/hello-world/
If any readers are interested they can definitely check out your blog. I don’t mind posting other blog sites on here.
Thank you Nathan for all of your support and input. It would be great if you were to become inspired to write a follow up or even reply on the blog entry that I just posted on my site. You could write about what it would mean to society if we did recognise that depression is an inherent defense mechanism and something to be embraced and not feared.
http://autonomousbeings.wordpress.com/2011/12/24/a-special-christmas-announcement-and-a-plea-to-the-humanity-within-all/
You’re very welcome. I will have to look at that and comment on it, in the morning :B.
I have been blessed with a new friend and I appreciate this Nathan. MGB
That’s very excellent news 🙂
I cannot deny it any longer that this, is in fact my mission and my personal minisrty if you will. It was you who first caused me to realize that all believers in Christ have a ministry of some sort. I was never one to wanted to believe myself to be any sort but I can no longer deny that I am a Christian with a minisrty. For this I am grateful to have met you.
I am glad you have realized your personal mission–it helps to give purpose in life, and I think we all have been created for some kind of purpose.
I have been working like a plough horse all day making my blog and webs just right, it would be nice if you vsited me there to add commentary. I am determined to bring this to the mainstream media and to the general public in 2012. Too many innocent people have been suffering for too long and I cannot sit by and do nothing.
I will do so; it took me a little while to get my blog going to get a lot of hits, but you’ve got a good message, so keep it up :).
Thank you Nathan and now its my turn to sleep while you keep watch lol 🙂 gnite
You’re very welcome. Indeed.
I hope that you find this interesting and that you decide to become a member and promote it and reply. http://knowdepression.ucoz.com/forum/3-1-1
I’ll have to take a look at it.
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Thanks for the pingback.
you are very welcome
🙂
lol, I forgot that you are on normal time now that you are not in Thailand anymore. I wasn’t expecting a re4ply comment until much later. I am just reading your latest entry
Yes, I’m on normal time, which has changed the rhythm of my posting a little bit :D.
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